Q&A: ‘I Raise My Voice
in Constant
Denunciation, Demanding
Justice’
Interview with Judge
Baltasar Garzón
SAN JOSE, (IPS) - "As
for the terrorist FARC
organization, I describe
it in the terms I have
just used," said Spanish
Judge Baltasar Garzón,
replying to a
journalist’s question
during his visit to
Costa Rica.
"Nothing can be gained
by violent means in a
democratic country,
because the democratic
state can never yield to
such a challenge," said
Garzón in an impromptu
conversation with
several journalists,
including IPS
correspondent Daniel
Zueras, at the Human
Forum 2008: A Symphony
of Transformation,
organized by the
Alliance for a New
Humanity and held
Tuesday to Thursday in
San José.
The FARC (Revolutionary
Armed Forces of
Colombia) is an
insurgent group with
rural roots whose
original members took up
arms in 1964. Latin
American countries have
avoided calling them
"terrorists", as Bogotá
wishes, and as the
United States and the
European Union have done
since 2001.
The Venezuelan
government asked earlier
this year for the FARC
to be recognized as a
"belligerent" force, as
a step towards a peace
process in Colombia.
Garzón captured
international attention
in 1998 when he issued a
warrant for the arrest
of former Chilean
dictator Augusto
Pinochet (1915-2006),
then in London, for the
murders of Spanish
citizens and crimes
against humanity
committed by his
1973-1990 military
regime.
Although Pinochet ended
up being released from
house arrest in London
instead of extradited to
Spain, his arrest paved
the way for
investigations in Chile
of past human rights
violations. What follows
is a summary of the
question and answer
session with Garzón:
Q: Do human rights
command more or less
respect now than 10
years ago? A: It’s not
possible to generalize.
There have been great
advances in the defense
of human rights, but
there have also been
major setbacks, and we
are having to make up
for some losses that
should never have
happened, especially in
areas that most directly
affect human beings,
like terrorism.
It is essential for
terrorism to be fought
within the rule of law.
Failure to do so, apart
from infringing the
basic principles of law,
is a mistake that all
citizens have to pay
for. I do not raise my
voice in criticism
against one side or
another, but in constant
denunciation, to demand
justice.
Q: Do you think the
International Criminal
Court is an effective
instrument?
A: It’s an absolutely
necessary judicial body,
but it would be far more
effective if countries
like the United States,
Russia, China, Israel,
and many others, were to
join it. It is a great
failure for humanity
that there are still so
many leaders who are not
covered by the
International Criminal
Court, because I think
it is the most important
peace initiative that
the world has produced
in the last 40 years.
It is intended to give a
response, under the rule
of law, to the barbarism
of the most serious
human rights crimes.
Q: What is your opinion
of the FARC?
A: As for the terrorist
FARC organization, I
describe it in the terms
I have just used. It
should have disappeared
a long time ago. Nothing
can be gained by violent
means in a democratic
country, or one in
search of peace;
violence leads nowhere,
because the democratic
state can never yield to
such a challenge. What
is called for is
reflection, and the
abandonment of violence.
That is the starting
point for dialogue and
finding solutions.
Q: What is your view on
the recent incursion by
the Colombian army into
Ecuadorean territory to
attack a FARC camp?
A: The issue was
resolved when the
Organization of American
States (OAS) decided to
condemn the action. To
make further comments
when those who were
required to give their
opinion have done so
leads nowhere.
Fortunately, the
diplomatic conflict
triggered by the action,
which was admitted by
the Colombian
authorities, has been
overcome.
Dialogue and
understanding are the
way to overcome problems
that may arise between
neighbouring countries.
For borders to be
violated, the borders
must exist, and while
this is the case there
are mechanisms to solve
the conflicts.
Q: Some have said in the
United States that if
the governments of
Ecuador and Venezuela
have had any links to
the FARC, these two
countries could be added
to the State Department
list of nations that
support international
terrorism. What is your
view of this list?
A: That is a political
decision and I have no
reason to make any
criticism of it, or the
reverse. I do not agree
with such lists. It is
very difficult nowadays
to state that countries
as such develop or
support terrorism; at
least, I am not aware of
any in this hemisphere.
A different matter is
the existence of facts,
documents, data that may
relate persons with
concrete actions. In the
purview of criminal
justice, facts are
sovereign, and the
evidence that proves
those facts establishes
what should be done.
Q: How vulnerable is
Central America to
terrorism? A:
International terrorism
threatens different
parts of the world to a
different extent, but it
is a real threat which
can produce an incident
at any time. We cannot
read terrorists’ minds,
so we don’t know what
their plans might be.
What’s important is that
everyone should be
prepared, and have the
instruments and weapons
necessary to face a
terrorist threat.
Q: What is your view on
how the Chilean justice
system handled the
Pinochet case?
A: The important thing
is that the judicial
machinery was put to
work, the existing
difficulties were
overcome, and the
Chilean justice system
is responding to the
crimes committed by the
dictatorship, although
unfortunately Augusto
Pinochet could not be
brought to trial. I
believe the victims
deserved that and that
it was their right.
In this case we failed,
but it is also true that
a person who had always
escaped justice was
brought before the
courts.
Q: Do you think that
anyone who commits a
crime against humanity
can no longer escape
punishment?
A: I would say that
there are legal
mechanisms in every
country and the
international community
for certain crimes
classified as
international to be
investigated and
prosecuted, and for
those responsible to be
tried, under the
principle of
international criminal
justice. If this is not
actually done, it may be
due to other reasons
which hinder the
process, but certainly,
it is legally possible.
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