"A national consensus" and "building bridges" were the recommendations given by the two world leaders (Photo: Vicente Correale)

Nobel Laureates Recommend Dialogue to Venezuela

Raqeul Seijas and Roberto Giusti
EL UNIVERSAL

Their different experiences as leaders of their countries have led them to the same conclusion. "Dialogue can work miracles," said Costa Rica's Oscar Arias. "Why not to organize a national dialogue to discuss problems?," wonders Russia's Mikhail Gorbachev

Oscar Arias -invited to the forum "Words for Venezuela," sponsored by the local Venezueal  bank Banesco - remembers that in his peace plan for Nicaragua, "democracy was a requisite for a stable and durable peace."

"Everybody knows that in February 1990, the Sandinists went to an election, lost it and handed in power," said Arias, who was the president of Costa Rica from 1986 to 1990.

His experience with the so-called Arias Plan offers a good perspective to evaluate Venezuela's crisis, which also has an international dimension.

Q: Is Venezuela in the way to become a new Cuba, as Nicaragua was?

A: I hope the election is the way for the Venezuelans to solve their differences. The Cold War is over, there is no armed conflict. An armed conflict here is unthinkable, and everybody would condemn it. No one is going to promote it. So, the only way you have as rational, sensible, sound and intelligent people is dialogue, elections. The entire world is waiting for that.


Q.: What happens when a ruler blocks all the exits, what do you do to get to the stage of dialogue?

A.: I think all the international community hopes that the Venezuelans can solve their differences around a negotiation table. In May last year, an agreement was signed to hold this recall vote. What we need to expect is that it takes place, as established in the Venezuelan Constitution. And then we have the Carter Center, the Organization of American States, the Group of Friends, the European countries...


Q.: Is it possible that Oscar Arias offers his help?

A.: If both parties ask me to do it, I would be pleased to, but I think it is not necessary. Many very committed people are already involved in the Venezuelan process. It is very important to build bridges rather than walls. I have always been convinced that dialogue can work miracles.


Q.: What is your message to the government and the opposition in Venezuela?

A.: The only exit to the differences facing the Venezuelan society is of an electoral type, not the use of force or violence. It would be regrettable - and the world would never forgive those who are responsible for that - if you take another option to solve the crisis. Dialogue begets miracles. Twenty years ago, in Central America, during the Cold War, everybody thought that the solution to the conflict was to take the weapons and kill themselves among Central American brothers. I insisted that there was another way, dialogue.


Q.: If that is the solution, why do so many people choose confrontation?

A.: Well, thanks God, Venezuela has not chosen it. And let's hope it will not. What is happening is that everything comes from false conceptions. For instance, in the Middle East, they think that security must be reached before peace because you cannot have peace where there is no security. That is like putting the carriage ahead of the horses. It is evident that peace is a requisite for security. And what prevents dialogue is arrogance, inflexibility, intransigence. Some people say: "I will not seat at the same table with that person."


Q.: How should Chávez act?

A.: I would tell him, as I have told you before, that a ruler must build bridges rather that dividing walls. I think the biggest burden in this negotiation process falls on the government, on building the bridges. Again, dialogue works miracles.


Dialogue - the key word

He is still the same Mikhail Gorbachev. He is now older, slower and heavier, but he keeps the charm of the solid farmer of the Caucasus that he never ceased to be. Under the hands of this man, the world changed forever thanks to the dissolution of the planet's biggest empire and the collapse of the myth of Communism. Unlike his own country, where he is not very well appreciated, the West continues to admire him as one of the greatest. Caracas is not an exception. Gorbachev was in the city, and displayed his usual magnetism to say what in Venezuela seems to be unspeakable: "Chávez is holding and I would advise him to remain that way."

Q: Is it possible to solve all the social and economic problems, as well as difficulties in health, employment and education, by centralizing and concentrating power?

A: We need to increase the levels of democracy in socially oriented economies and to be prepared for situations that demand authoritarian measures. But the authoritarianism and dictatorship are condemned to failure. Maybe at a certain moment, you can solve a problem by the means of force, but in the long run, you can only preserve society with democracy, freedom and private initiative.


Q.: Is that a piece of advice for (President Hugo) Chávez?

A.: The ascent of Hugo Chávez to power is an objective event because 80 percent of poverty in any country is very a serious thing, and his election cannot be denied. Everything happened in accordance with democracy and there was no violation.

Q.: The problem is that poverty has not curbed but increased. Besides, Chávez wants no more elections, at least not any election where his position is at stake.


A.: He does not want anything. He was elected for six years and wants to complete his term, as indicated in the Constitution. Those who question Chávez for his attitude may appeal, for example, to the National Assembly. This is not a question of accusing only, but of finding solutions. Just consider the significance of an 80-percent dissatisfaction in a rich country.


Q.: All right, but what would you propose?

A.: I would propose a national consensus. I think that in difficult situations, President Chávez has not gone to the extremes. He has nobody in prison. He is holding and I would recommend him to continue that way. But why not to organize a national dialogue to discuss the problems and find solutions? If things continue like this, the situation is going to get much more complicated. And as a conclusion, I will tell you this: That is a problem of yours. Start thinking of this.


Q.: You had a close relation with Fidel Castro. Do you think that Cuba's presence in Venezuela is positive?

A.: President Chávez and his government must have relations with all the countries in the continent, including Cuba. But I do not think that Castro can command or rule in Venezuela. Frankly, I do not think that is the case.